Brown Don't Frown Podcast

Season 5: EP 38 - In conversation with Jane Chelliah: Feminist mothering, identity loss and empty nest syndrome

Today’s guest is Jane Chelliah, a South Asian midlife influencer and blogger who talks candidly about motherhood, feminism and transforming the female midlife crisis into a happy phase in life. Jane didn’t always see herself as a mother but found that she was absolutely besotted in love with her daughter when she was born. 

Jane describes herself as a Feminist mother. I ask her what that means to her and she shares an evocative metaphor: “It’s about putting that oxygen mask on yourself first before putting it on your child, and that way, you can not only be the best version of yourself but you can be the best for your child. It’s about empowered mothering.” 

Motherhood can make women lose that sense of self, of who they were before they became mothers. When I ask Jane about whether motherhood affected her identity, she explains how it added further dimensions to her ability to be more compassionate and thoughtful towards another human being and for herself too. Contrary to societal preconceptions of motherhood, it actually sharpened her ambition and empowered her to be more motivated. 

We also examine the “motherhood penalty”, assumptions and prejudices in the workforce, how austerity has rested disproportionately upon mothers from economically deprived groups, and the hollowness that comes with becoming an empty-nester.

You can read more about Jane on www.amidlferinlondon.com  and www.ambitiousmamas.co.uk.

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If you enjoy listening to the podcast, please consider supporting it - all for as little as the price of a coffee! You can donate here: www.patreon.com/browndontfrownpod.

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Season 5: Ep 37 - Pregnant Then Screwed Founder Joeli Brearley on pregnancy discrimination, fixing childcare and creating a fairer workplace for mothers

The first guest of this special series on the joys and challenges of maternity and motherhood, is Joeli Brearley, Founder and Director of Pregnant Then Screwed. It started off as a safe space for mothers to share stories of their pregnancy discrimination and has evolved to become a one-of-a kind charity that lobbies against the gender pay gap, maternity discrimination and aims to be a voice for working mothers.

Joeli shares striking examples of pregnancy discrimination she’s come across through PTS’s Advice Line and how she’s used these examples to galvanise change in maternity policy. She also talks about the work PTS is doing to reach underserved groups and more Black and Brown women.

Childcare in the UK has been unfit for purpose for a long time. We ask, how do we fix the system? And how can we better engage with employers to encourage them to make their workplaces the best they can be for working parents?

We finish with Joeli sharing her thoughts on the best thing about being a mum and the hardest thing, and one piece of advice she’d give to expectant or new mothers.

You can join the March of the Mummies protest on childcare reform and better parental leave on 29 October, taking place across 11 cities in the UK: https://pregnantthenscrewed.com/event-march-of-the-mummies/ 

RESET 2022 Online Festival of motherhood and mental health takes place from 12 - 16 September: https://pregnantthenscrewed.com/reset-2022-festival-of-motherhood-and-mental-health/ 

Follow Pregnant Then Screwed:

Instagram - @pregnant_then_screwed

Twitter - @PregnantScrewed

Sign up to our newsletter:  https://mailchi.mp/186e92c0ae06/browndontfrownpodcastnewsletter 

If you enjoy listening to the podcast, please consider supporting it - all for as little as the price of a coffee! You can donate here: www.patreon.com/browndontfrownpod.

Follow us on:

Twitter - @BDFPodcast 

Instagram - @browndontfrownpodcast 

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TRAILER - Season 5

Brown Don’t Frown is back! Season 5 drops September 2022! Make sure you hit the subscribe button and you will be notified as soon as a new episode goes live. 

Inspired by my own personal journey with pregnancy and motherhood, this will be a special series covering the joys and challenges of motherhood and maternity, empowering change in childcare, mental health and the workforce.

Sign up to our newsletter: https://mailchi.mp/186e92c0ae06/browndontfrownpodcastnewsletter. 

If you enjoy listening to the podcast, please consider supporting it - all for as little as the price of a coffee! You can donate here: www.patreon.com/browndontfrownpod.

You can find us on:
Twitter - @BDFPodcast 
Instagram - @browndontfrownpodcast 
Facebook - @browndontfrownpodcast 
LinkedIn - @browndontfrownpodcast

Season 4: Ep 36 - Dina Begum on the symbolism of food, Bangladeshi hospitality and our favourite dishes

The final episode of season 4 is here and joining us is Dina Begum, a British-Bangladeshi cook and writer who is passionate about highlighting the underrepresented recipes and authentic food traditions of Bangladesh.

For Bengalis and Bangladeshis, and across much of the South Asian continent, food is inseparable from humanity, community, purpose and love. I ask Dina why food is so important to her and whether she always saw herself as a cook. Food is a very visceral experience. Flavours, spices or certain dishes can be nostalgic if we associate them with a particular memory or event. Food can symbolise traditions, rekindle a sense of identity and bring people together; that’s why Bengali hospitality is second to none. We look at why food is so critical to familial spaces and what it symbolises for us.

In the UK, most of what we class as “Indian food”, is curated by Bangladeshi restaurant owners and chefs. The recognition and appreciation for homemade-style food and the desire to seek out unique flavours is a more recent phenomenon which has empowered the Bangladeshi diaspora to spotlight their cuisine, rather than grouping it under “Indian” or “curry”.  Dina has written about how recipes are passed down from one generation to the next, usually not by writing them down, but by demonstrating. We consider the contrast between the observation/estimation styles of Bangladeshi cooking versus the meticulous measurements in English recipes.  Finally, we talk about our favourite Bangladeshi dishes and our three staple spices for the kitchen.

You can follow Dina on Twitter: @dinasfoodstory.

Season 4: Ep 35 - Urban planning, spatial inequalities and feminist cities

Deborah Broomfield is a doctoral candidate in Women and Planning. Her research focuses on spatial inequalities, urban planning and their intersection with deprivation, race and class. Urban planning overlaps with both politics and technical knowledge because of its focus on land use and the built environment, encompassing infrastructure, water, the air we breathe, transportation, networks, and communications. Deborah talks about her career journey and how she got into urban planning later in life.

I ask Deborah how she thinks urban planning will respond to the challenges we have seen during the pandemic, such as limited mobility and increased home-working and how we might respond to future environmental threats. The role of safety for women and girls in public spaces has been rising up on the public agenda, particularly since the Sarah Everard case. How do we plan more effectively with women in mind to improve our towns and cities without encroaching unreasonably on our privacy? Redesigning a city with a feminist philosophy is one where all sexes can be treated equally; it’s ultimately about security and services, and being mindful of how men and women use space differently. We look at some examples of safer cities for women and how they make a difference. 

We also reflect on the intersection of race and space and how the impacts of climate change affect the vulnerable and poor the hardest. 

Follow Deborah on Twitter: @DebsBroomfield If you enjoy listening to this podcast, please consider supporting it so it can continue to provide you with engaging, meaningful content. You can donate via Patreon: www.patreon.com/browndontfrownpod.

Season 4: Ep 34 - Dr Lisa Mckenzie on being a Working Class Academic, the myth of Social Mobility, and defining “Cultural Capital”

Today’s guest is Dr Lisa Mckenzie, Assistant Professor, Ethnographer and Sociologist, currently based at Durham University who has written and spoken extensively about classism, social inequality and leftist politics. We begin the conversation talking about her roots coming from a mining town in Nottingham and the pride of her working class identity growing up, defined by values of community, family, and hard work. 

We speak about our unhealthy obsession with class hierarchies in the UK, and the inherent prejudice against the working class. The recent Sewell Report, albeit heavily criticised, identified the defining roles that class and geographical inequalities play in people’s life chances and we talk about the intersection of class, race, ethnicity, gender and location when it comes to discrimination and inequality in the UK. Lisa speaks about her latest kickstarter project, “Lockdown Diaries of the Working Class” which comprises a collection of diary entries from 38 working class people in the first month of lockdown. She tells us about her motivations behind spotlighting the illustrations and stories of the working class.

Lisa is a vocal opponent of social mobility. I ask her why she thinks it is ineffective and whether aspiration can ever be a bad thing. Cultural Capital now forms part of Ofsted’s teaching framework and requires education providers to give learners “the knowledge and cultural capital they need to succeed in life”. Given its historical association with who you know, not what you know, and having the right networks, we talk about how, in some ways, it might polarise the middle and working classes by equating self-worth with an idealised way of life.

Follow Lisa on Twitter: @redrumlisa. If you enjoy listening to this podcast, please consider supporting it so it can continue to provide you with engaging, meaningful content. You can donate via Patreon: www.patreon.com/browndontfrownpod.

Season 4: Ep 33 - In conversation with Nijjor Manush: the Gentrification of Brick Lane, British-Bangladeshi Identity and the media's invalidation of Muslim women.

Today, I am joined by Dr Fatima Rajina and Hajera Begum of Nijjor Manush, an independent campaign group which empowers and educates Bengalis and Bangladeshis in the UK.  

 

Brick Lane’s legacy is synonymous with Bangladeshi cuisine, culture and history. It is both a symbol of struggle and success for Bangladeshis, from Altab Ali to infamous curry houses and everything in-between. It’s somewhere I frequented during my childhood as a Tower Hamlets resident, and now as an adult. I saw it through the lens of unadulterated fascination as a child, and now through the reality of gentrification. The Old Truman Brewery plans to build a five storey shopping complex in the middle of it. We discuss whether this gentrification of Banglatown is an inevitable response to changing consumer demand and economic growth, while also questioning the broader, underhanded motivations at play. We also talk about the potential impact of gentrification on first and second generation Bangladeshi women in East London.

 

We consider whether there is a sense of solidarity in the UK between different South Asian ethnic groups and also within the Bangladeshi diaspora itself. We each talk about our experiences as British Bangladeshis growing up in the UK, as well as the experiences of our families.

 

The portrayal of Bangladeshi, and particularly Muslim, Hijabi women in the media can be incendiary and damaging. The current mainstream feminist narrative simultaneously portrays Muslim women as threatening and oppressed, invalidating their agency and undermining their integrity. We share our perspectives on this narrative and whether we think it will ever evolve. 

Follow Nijjor Manush on Twitter: @nijjormanush and Instagram: @nijjormanush.

 

If you enjoy listening to this podcast, please consider supporting it so it can continue to provide you with engaging, meaningful content. You can donate via Patreon: www.patreon.com/browndontfrownpod. 

Season 4: Ep 32 - Modern Dating, long-term relationships, and the importance of slowing down post-pandemic

What are the challenges of dating, particularly in pandemic times? Has the pandemic accelerated innovations to dating apps for a more realistic dating experience? Has dating culture commodified romance and set unrealistic expectations for relationships? Today, I’m joined by Nichi Hodgson, a journalist, dating expert and author of ‘The Curious History of Dating’ who answers these questions, and more. 

 

We also talk about our long-term relationships with our respective partners and what they have meant to us during the pandemic, as well as experiences of interracial dating and sexual fluidity. We reflect on how the growing acceptance of sexual fluidity and interracial relationships has had a positive impact on tackling prejudice, discrimination, and 'otherness'.

 

Finally, we discuss the importance of normalising rest and relaxation and slowing down. The first lockdown compelled many of us to take a step back from our fast-paced lives and leave FOMO behind. We consider whether our collective experience as a society during this pandemic has destigmatised opening up about our mental health and how we can ensure that the government prioritises it going forward. Some of us are looking ahead to our lives post-pandemic, though equally, some of us remain anxious about the future and the risks of the virus. We share our conflicting sentiments towards socialising and what ‘going back to normal’ might mean for us. 

 

If you enjoy listening to this podcast, please consider supporting it so it can continue to provide you with engaging, meaningful content. You can donate via Patreon: www.patreon.com/browndontfrownpod. To stay updated on the latest news, sign up to the BDF newsletter here.

Season 4: Ep 31 - How do we build a more diverse, representative and fairer teaching curriculum?

Season 4 kicks off with Shalina Patel, an award-winning history teacher and co-founder of The History Corridor on Instagram. Shalina tells us about her career journey and what motivated her to become a history teacher. We talk about the tendency to be tokenistic when it comes to teaching diverse history, for example a gloss over the Windrush Generation or the glorification of the British Empire, without much reflection of the consequences of exploitation and racism. The relevance of these isolated stories is then buried within the broader curriculum. So I ask, how do we create spaces for important stories to be told, and, is the current teaching curriculum compatible with diverse storytelling? 

Shalina shares some advice on how teachers can embed intersectionality into their teaching curriculums and widen their pupils’ perspectives. Social media is saturated with facts, opinions, controversies and conspiracies, which can confound the truth. It might mean that children and young people are misguided about what they read and understand, which can be particularly dangerous because they lack the foresight and intuition that comes with age and experience when distinguishing fact from fiction. Within that context, we discuss how teachers can uphold integrity and objectivity when it comes to teaching history.

I also ask Shalina what discovery of the past has surprised her the most, what it means to her to be a feminist, and what particular intersectional, feminist piece of history inspires her.  

You can follow the History Corridor on Instagram: @thehistorycorridor and you can find out more about Shalina here.

To stay updated on the latest news, podcast episodes and exclusives, you can sign up to the BDF newsletter here.

TRAILER - Season 4

Brown Don’t Frown is back! Season 4 drops on Monday 3 May! Make sure you hit the subscribe button and you will be notified as soon as a new episode goes live. 

We will be bringing you six episodes and hosting some wonderful guests talking about a range of topics, including an award-winning history teacher who shares how to build a diverse and fairer teaching curriculum, a grassroots-led movement which educates Bengalis in the UK, celebrates the histories of the diaspora and challenges the issues facing women, as well as a dating expert and journalist who talks about modern dating and the benefits of a slower-paced life post-pandemic. We’ll also be featuring an Urban Planner who speaks about building feminist cities, a working class academic who argues against social mobility, and an award-winning Bangladeshi chef and writer. 

Sign up to our newsletter:

https://mailchi.mp/186e92c0ae06/browndontfrownpodcastnewsletter 

If you enjoy listening to the podcast and have benefitted from it, please consider supporting it - for as little as the price of a coffee! You can donate here: www.patreon.com/browndontfrownpod.

Follow us on:

Twitter - @BDFPodcast 

Instagram - @browndontfrownpodcast 

Facebook - @browndontfrownpodcast 

LinkedIn - @browndontfrownpodcast