Brown Don't Frown Podcast

Season 5: Ep 40 - March Muses founders Alison Burton and Natalie Duvall on Dragons’ Den, and balancing entrepreneurialism, motherhood and creativity

To mark Black History Month, the final guests of season 5 are Alison Burton and Natalie Duvall, founders of March Muses, which produces luxury gifts representing people of colour and received backing from Dragons’ Den’s Peter Jones and Deborah Meaden. They are the only UK brand to have created a full range of Black Christmas decorations, shining the light on the need for diverse and inclusive figurines and baubles at Christmas time. 

Alison and Natalie are single mums who also have full time day jobs and share their perspectives on balancing entrepreneurialism, motherhood and creativity. 

It’s important that we raise our children to value diversity, feel visible and see all humans as equal. As mothers of Black daughters, I ask them why representation is particularly important to them.

Natalie and Alison also frankly share their experiences with motherhood:

“As a parent, you’re winging it every day, because you don’t know what you’re going to be faced with and you have to find a solution for it at that moment. You could be tired, you could be hungry, you could be fed up, you could be stressed, but you have to find the answer. And you have to come down to their level with the way that you communicate.”

“The beautiful thing is, you’re always learning from your children…”

You can follow March Muses on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marchmuses/ Find out more on https://www.marchmuses.co.uk/

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Season 5: Ep 39 - Navigating “mum-guilt”, anxiety and life as a stay-at-home mum

Katie Pearson is an old classmate from Sixth Form. She talks frankly about life as a stay-at-home mum,  the societal stereotypes and stigma associated with it, “mum guilt” and how she manages her anxiety and negative thoughts. 

The negative perceptions of stay-at-home mums have been created by women. We are the gatekeepers of this narrative.  It often feels like whatever women do, they’re not good enough. If you’re a working mother, you’re neglecting your children, and if you’re a stay-at-home mother, you’ve failed to achieve your full potential. A lot of women calling themselves feminists are part of the problem of this women-shaming. We ask, do we have a problem with internalised misogyny? 

Raising children is one of the most undervalued roles in life. Author of Invisible Women, Caroline Criado Perez, says “Women’s unpaid work is work that society depends on, and it is work from which society as a whole benefits[...]The unpaid work that women do isn’t simply a matter of “choice”. It is built into the system we have created – and it could just as easily be built out of it”. ONS analysis of time use data shows that women put in more than double the proportion of unpaid work when it comes to cooking, childcare and housework. I ask Katie whether this resonates with her and she shares her typical day of taking care of her children, and working around the house.

We round off with Katie sharing the best thing about being a mum, the hardest thing and a piece of advice she’d give to expectant or new mothers: be kind to yourself.

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If you enjoy listening to the podcast, please consider supporting it - all for as little as the price of a coffee! You can donate here: www.patreon.com/browndontfrownpod.

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Season 5: EP 38 - In conversation with Jane Chelliah: Feminist mothering, identity loss and empty nest syndrome

Today’s guest is Jane Chelliah, a South Asian midlife influencer and blogger who talks candidly about motherhood, feminism and transforming the female midlife crisis into a happy phase in life. Jane didn’t always see herself as a mother but found that she was absolutely besotted in love with her daughter when she was born. 

Jane describes herself as a Feminist mother. I ask her what that means to her and she shares an evocative metaphor: “It’s about putting that oxygen mask on yourself first before putting it on your child, and that way, you can not only be the best version of yourself but you can be the best for your child. It’s about empowered mothering.” 

Motherhood can make women lose that sense of self, of who they were before they became mothers. When I ask Jane about whether motherhood affected her identity, she explains how it added further dimensions to her ability to be more compassionate and thoughtful towards another human being and for herself too. Contrary to societal preconceptions of motherhood, it actually sharpened her ambition and empowered her to be more motivated. 

We also examine the “motherhood penalty”, assumptions and prejudices in the workforce, how austerity has rested disproportionately upon mothers from economically deprived groups, and the hollowness that comes with becoming an empty-nester.

You can read more about Jane on www.amidlferinlondon.com  and www.ambitiousmamas.co.uk.

Sign up to our newsletter:  https://mailchi.mp/186e92c0ae06/browndontfrownpodcastnewsletter 

If you enjoy listening to the podcast, please consider supporting it - all for as little as the price of a coffee! You can donate here: www.patreon.com/browndontfrownpod.

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Season 5: Ep 37 - Pregnant Then Screwed Founder Joeli Brearley on pregnancy discrimination, fixing childcare and creating a fairer workplace for mothers

The first guest of this special series on the joys and challenges of maternity and motherhood, is Joeli Brearley, Founder and Director of Pregnant Then Screwed. It started off as a safe space for mothers to share stories of their pregnancy discrimination and has evolved to become a one-of-a kind charity that lobbies against the gender pay gap, maternity discrimination and aims to be a voice for working mothers.

Joeli shares striking examples of pregnancy discrimination she’s come across through PTS’s Advice Line and how she’s used these examples to galvanise change in maternity policy. She also talks about the work PTS is doing to reach underserved groups and more Black and Brown women.

Childcare in the UK has been unfit for purpose for a long time. We ask, how do we fix the system? And how can we better engage with employers to encourage them to make their workplaces the best they can be for working parents?

We finish with Joeli sharing her thoughts on the best thing about being a mum and the hardest thing, and one piece of advice she’d give to expectant or new mothers.

You can join the March of the Mummies protest on childcare reform and better parental leave on 29 October, taking place across 11 cities in the UK: https://pregnantthenscrewed.com/event-march-of-the-mummies/ 

RESET 2022 Online Festival of motherhood and mental health takes place from 12 - 16 September: https://pregnantthenscrewed.com/reset-2022-festival-of-motherhood-and-mental-health/ 

Follow Pregnant Then Screwed:

Instagram - @pregnant_then_screwed

Twitter - @PregnantScrewed

Sign up to our newsletter:  https://mailchi.mp/186e92c0ae06/browndontfrownpodcastnewsletter 

If you enjoy listening to the podcast, please consider supporting it - all for as little as the price of a coffee! You can donate here: www.patreon.com/browndontfrownpod.

Follow us on:

Twitter - @BDFPodcast 

Instagram - @browndontfrownpodcast 

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TRAILER - Season 5

Brown Don’t Frown is back! Season 5 drops September 2022! Make sure you hit the subscribe button and you will be notified as soon as a new episode goes live. 

Inspired by my own personal journey with pregnancy and motherhood, this will be a special series covering the joys and challenges of motherhood and maternity, empowering change in childcare, mental health and the workforce.

Sign up to our newsletter: https://mailchi.mp/186e92c0ae06/browndontfrownpodcastnewsletter. 

If you enjoy listening to the podcast, please consider supporting it - all for as little as the price of a coffee! You can donate here: www.patreon.com/browndontfrownpod.

You can find us on:
Twitter - @BDFPodcast 
Instagram - @browndontfrownpodcast 
Facebook - @browndontfrownpodcast 
LinkedIn - @browndontfrownpodcast

Season 4: Ep 36 - Dina Begum on the symbolism of food, Bangladeshi hospitality and our favourite dishes

The final episode of season 4 is here and joining us is Dina Begum, a British-Bangladeshi cook and writer who is passionate about highlighting the underrepresented recipes and authentic food traditions of Bangladesh.

For Bengalis and Bangladeshis, and across much of the South Asian continent, food is inseparable from humanity, community, purpose and love. I ask Dina why food is so important to her and whether she always saw herself as a cook. Food is a very visceral experience. Flavours, spices or certain dishes can be nostalgic if we associate them with a particular memory or event. Food can symbolise traditions, rekindle a sense of identity and bring people together; that’s why Bengali hospitality is second to none. We look at why food is so critical to familial spaces and what it symbolises for us.

In the UK, most of what we class as “Indian food”, is curated by Bangladeshi restaurant owners and chefs. The recognition and appreciation for homemade-style food and the desire to seek out unique flavours is a more recent phenomenon which has empowered the Bangladeshi diaspora to spotlight their cuisine, rather than grouping it under “Indian” or “curry”.  Dina has written about how recipes are passed down from one generation to the next, usually not by writing them down, but by demonstrating. We consider the contrast between the observation/estimation styles of Bangladeshi cooking versus the meticulous measurements in English recipes.  Finally, we talk about our favourite Bangladeshi dishes and our three staple spices for the kitchen.

You can follow Dina on Twitter: @dinasfoodstory.

Season 4: Ep 35 - Urban planning, spatial inequalities and feminist cities

Deborah Broomfield is a doctoral candidate in Women and Planning. Her research focuses on spatial inequalities, urban planning and their intersection with deprivation, race and class. Urban planning overlaps with both politics and technical knowledge because of its focus on land use and the built environment, encompassing infrastructure, water, the air we breathe, transportation, networks, and communications. Deborah talks about her career journey and how she got into urban planning later in life.

I ask Deborah how she thinks urban planning will respond to the challenges we have seen during the pandemic, such as limited mobility and increased home-working and how we might respond to future environmental threats. The role of safety for women and girls in public spaces has been rising up on the public agenda, particularly since the Sarah Everard case. How do we plan more effectively with women in mind to improve our towns and cities without encroaching unreasonably on our privacy? Redesigning a city with a feminist philosophy is one where all sexes can be treated equally; it’s ultimately about security and services, and being mindful of how men and women use space differently. We look at some examples of safer cities for women and how they make a difference. 

We also reflect on the intersection of race and space and how the impacts of climate change affect the vulnerable and poor the hardest. 

Follow Deborah on Twitter: @DebsBroomfield If you enjoy listening to this podcast, please consider supporting it so it can continue to provide you with engaging, meaningful content. You can donate via Patreon: www.patreon.com/browndontfrownpod.

Season 4: Ep 34 - Dr Lisa Mckenzie on being a Working Class Academic, the myth of Social Mobility, and defining “Cultural Capital”

Today’s guest is Dr Lisa Mckenzie, Assistant Professor, Ethnographer and Sociologist, currently based at Durham University who has written and spoken extensively about classism, social inequality and leftist politics. We begin the conversation talking about her roots coming from a mining town in Nottingham and the pride of her working class identity growing up, defined by values of community, family, and hard work. 

We speak about our unhealthy obsession with class hierarchies in the UK, and the inherent prejudice against the working class. The recent Sewell Report, albeit heavily criticised, identified the defining roles that class and geographical inequalities play in people’s life chances and we talk about the intersection of class, race, ethnicity, gender and location when it comes to discrimination and inequality in the UK. Lisa speaks about her latest kickstarter project, “Lockdown Diaries of the Working Class” which comprises a collection of diary entries from 38 working class people in the first month of lockdown. She tells us about her motivations behind spotlighting the illustrations and stories of the working class.

Lisa is a vocal opponent of social mobility. I ask her why she thinks it is ineffective and whether aspiration can ever be a bad thing. Cultural Capital now forms part of Ofsted’s teaching framework and requires education providers to give learners “the knowledge and cultural capital they need to succeed in life”. Given its historical association with who you know, not what you know, and having the right networks, we talk about how, in some ways, it might polarise the middle and working classes by equating self-worth with an idealised way of life.

Follow Lisa on Twitter: @redrumlisa. If you enjoy listening to this podcast, please consider supporting it so it can continue to provide you with engaging, meaningful content. You can donate via Patreon: www.patreon.com/browndontfrownpod.

Season 4: Ep 33 - In conversation with Nijjor Manush: the Gentrification of Brick Lane, British-Bangladeshi Identity and the media's invalidation of Muslim women.

Today, I am joined by Dr Fatima Rajina and Hajera Begum of Nijjor Manush, an independent campaign group which empowers and educates Bengalis and Bangladeshis in the UK.  

 

Brick Lane’s legacy is synonymous with Bangladeshi cuisine, culture and history. It is both a symbol of struggle and success for Bangladeshis, from Altab Ali to infamous curry houses and everything in-between. It’s somewhere I frequented during my childhood as a Tower Hamlets resident, and now as an adult. I saw it through the lens of unadulterated fascination as a child, and now through the reality of gentrification. The Old Truman Brewery plans to build a five storey shopping complex in the middle of it. We discuss whether this gentrification of Banglatown is an inevitable response to changing consumer demand and economic growth, while also questioning the broader, underhanded motivations at play. We also talk about the potential impact of gentrification on first and second generation Bangladeshi women in East London.

 

We consider whether there is a sense of solidarity in the UK between different South Asian ethnic groups and also within the Bangladeshi diaspora itself. We each talk about our experiences as British Bangladeshis growing up in the UK, as well as the experiences of our families.

 

The portrayal of Bangladeshi, and particularly Muslim, Hijabi women in the media can be incendiary and damaging. The current mainstream feminist narrative simultaneously portrays Muslim women as threatening and oppressed, invalidating their agency and undermining their integrity. We share our perspectives on this narrative and whether we think it will ever evolve. 

Follow Nijjor Manush on Twitter: @nijjormanush and Instagram: @nijjormanush.

 

If you enjoy listening to this podcast, please consider supporting it so it can continue to provide you with engaging, meaningful content. You can donate via Patreon: www.patreon.com/browndontfrownpod. 

Season 4: Ep 32 - Modern Dating, long-term relationships, and the importance of slowing down post-pandemic

What are the challenges of dating, particularly in pandemic times? Has the pandemic accelerated innovations to dating apps for a more realistic dating experience? Has dating culture commodified romance and set unrealistic expectations for relationships? Today, I’m joined by Nichi Hodgson, a journalist, dating expert and author of ‘The Curious History of Dating’ who answers these questions, and more. 

 

We also talk about our long-term relationships with our respective partners and what they have meant to us during the pandemic, as well as experiences of interracial dating and sexual fluidity. We reflect on how the growing acceptance of sexual fluidity and interracial relationships has had a positive impact on tackling prejudice, discrimination, and 'otherness'.

 

Finally, we discuss the importance of normalising rest and relaxation and slowing down. The first lockdown compelled many of us to take a step back from our fast-paced lives and leave FOMO behind. We consider whether our collective experience as a society during this pandemic has destigmatised opening up about our mental health and how we can ensure that the government prioritises it going forward. Some of us are looking ahead to our lives post-pandemic, though equally, some of us remain anxious about the future and the risks of the virus. We share our conflicting sentiments towards socialising and what ‘going back to normal’ might mean for us. 

 

If you enjoy listening to this podcast, please consider supporting it so it can continue to provide you with engaging, meaningful content. You can donate via Patreon: www.patreon.com/browndontfrownpod. To stay updated on the latest news, sign up to the BDF newsletter here.